Cape Cod Focus: Are we neglecting "Older" Professionals and Entrepreneurs?
capecoder
· 1 year ago
Thank you for asking!
I don't think enough attention is being paid to small Cape-based businesses that are not dependent on tourism, period, regardless of the age of their owners.
That being said, some specific reaction from this 1940's era entrepreneur who lives here year-round:
1) I've not seen any scientific or sociological evidence to support the original thesis that a "healthy" community has an equal number of adults ages 35–44 years as adults 65 and over. Where did this come from and why has this assumption been "bought" hook, line and sinker?
2) The original thesis, as stated on this very website, is "Cape Cod, the study warned, is losing its working age adults, age 35–44 years, their children and early retirees." I haven't seen a single newspaper article addressing the third cohort in this equation: early retirees. Why is no attention being paid to this group?
3) I can't get my head around why having a large percentage of residents who are paying property taxes yet who don't have kids in the public schools (school departments being about half of a town's annual budget) is a bad thing. These same people also are paying local use fees, spending money at local stores, hiring local skilled craftsmen, etc. And this is destructive to the community?
4) Obviously, most people in the community are decent and law-abiding. Still, look at your local police log and draw your own conclusions about the age groups that chew up community resources, cause problems for their neighbors, etc. The great majority are not early retirees or senior citizens.
In other words, be careful what you wish for.
Gary Sheehan
· 1 year ago
Appreciate the contrarian commentary capecoder; much of our work and focus is predicated on the fact that it is not healthy, nor advisable, for a community to continue to lose working age adults and families. We will continue to solicit feedback surrounding a myriad of issues, however I feel I am safe to say that we feel very strongly that the continued out-migration of our working families is a dire situation and one which must be addressed. Certainly there is a conversation happening around designing more opportunities for businesses to grow here on the Cape, particularly smaller, non-tourism related groups - however we also have to be certain to address some of the critical policy issues impacting the established companies who are seeking a smoother growth process here on Cape Cod...providing a stronger employment base and additional opportunities. So, your comments are well noted, but I politely disagree that a community can safely turn its back on young families and expect to have a base of workers standing at the ready to care for and service older retirees; they will continue to leave and our older population will face a situation where they do not have people to contribute to the smooth functioning of our community. Best - and I will be in touch soonest on the "weekend" issue we discussed previously...Gary
capecoder
· 1 year ago
Hi Gary.
First, you haven't addressed my objection to the premise, which is the number of 33-45 year olds needs to EQUAL the number of 65+ year olds. Where did this assertion come from?
Second, the question of how to retain young retirees is not addressed, either.
Third, the complaint about too few workers has become, like patriotism, the last refuge for scoundrels. It's the excuse given to hire undocumented workers at below-market wages with no benefits, either statutory or otherwise.
Fourth, even though young families may not live on Cape, they could still participate in the life of the community in ways both of us applaud. The Waldorf School - a vital, lively, successful educational institution - is located in Bourne but enjoys the support of families from Southeastern Massachusetts and the South Shore.
Gary Sheehan
· 1 year ago
Not sure where you caught that we were trying to "equalize" the 65+ population with 33-45, the goal is to stem the tide of out-migration in our young workers and families... There are several efforts underway to try and address the retention of younger retirees; the Cape and Islands Workforce Investment Board has a very active campaign surrounding 55+ workers and the Executive Director is playing a key role in guiding the work of CC Focus - a lot of the early work and coverage has highlighted the role of younger people in the community, this cannot come to the detriment of other age bands who are equally critical to the regions success. I think your third point is clearly inflammatory and shortsighted. There are several well known and well documented cases of businesses and municipalities running into serious issues hiring employees. These hospitals, towns, and companies are not racing to the bottom to try and underpay at every level...they are out making a concerted effort to fill critical positions and running into major problems because of the employment pool we draw from in the region, or the inability to attract well qualified recruits from other regions because of cost based issues in the community. Clearly you have an axe to grind with the larger business community about our willingness to offer jobs at competitive wages and a general sense that we're all trying to hire as much cheap and illegal labor as possible; that has not been my experience and I characterize it as an unfair indictment of the community. I completely agree that we have the capacity to attract families from the other side of the bridge and engage them in civic life here on the Cape...I remind people all the time that it is a Bridge, not a Wall and the exchange of traffic goes both ways. Businesses, towns, and non-profit organizations have ample untapped capacity to connect with people who may not live on this side of the bridge, and doing so will only enhance the community. Again though, I feel you come from an ideological place which has a very negative view on the business community here on Cape Cod, which may well be well formed...I see the tremendous potential that exists in the region, but feel strongly that potential will be marginalized if we do not do a better job doing what Peter Francese called "balancing our human ecology" - meaning finding a balance between all age groups and creating opportunities for people at all levels.
capecoder
· 1 year ago
Peter Francese, the demographer who started this discussion a year ago, defined a "healthy" demographic mix in this way: "the number of residents between 25 and 34 years old should roughly equal the number of residents 65 and older." See the Cape Cod Times article (in which you also were quoted), reproduced in full on this website: http://www.capecodfocus.org/news/show/10
I'm familiar with the WIB's 55+ program and understand that the goal is to recruit people in that age cohort for the insurance industry. This is not of personal interest to me, but perhaps it is a career goal for some.
Your conclusion that I've "indicted" the community and "have an axe to grind" is completely puzzling. I'm part of the business community here, have been for over seven years, so any such indictment would also include me. Also, I didn't accuse any Cape employer of hiring cheap illegal labor, either generally or in particular.
As I've written to you offline, I helped with the data analysis of a salary/benefits survey some five years ago that was sponsored by a respected Cape Cod professional association. Some of the results around salaries were interesting. It is my opinion that this would be worth revisiting with current data since it did support the notion that "good paying" jobs are harder to find on the Cape than in other parts of Massachusetts.
Much as I'd like to continue this dialog, this will be my last post for personal and family reasons. Best of luck with your efforts; anything that helps to make the business environment here better will make me very happy.
Gary Sheehan
· 1 year ago
Best of luck with things Marcia...appreciate your commentary on the issues and hope to work with you on some other initiatives in the future.
Stephen Buckley
· 11 months ago
Dear Gary,
As a user of online discussions for 20 years, I know that a "flame war" (i.e., inflammatory discussion between users) does not, in the long run, increase the quality or quantity of discussion. In fact, it has the opposite effect.
The best response to a posting that is potentially incendiary is to "take it *down* a notch", lest you fall into the trap of a "flame war".
That, for example, is what I am trying to do here in my response to you. I'm asking you to reconsider your response to "capecoder" in which you said:
"I think your third point is clearly inflammatory and shortsighted."
Statements can be provocative without being "inflammatory". But some people do have a lower threshold of becoming "enflamed" by provocative comments and also (but inaccurately) feel that everyone else feels the same way.
I, for example, do not feel the same way. And I know that there are others who would not response with words that, ironically, seem to be "clearly inflammatory and shortsighted".
The best thing to do is to ask yourself if you would say the very same thing to someone in a face-to-face public meeting. I humbly ask that you answer that question before you post any response to my thoughts.
sincerely, Stephen Buckley
P.S. Since this platform does not provide email-notices of replies, I will not be aware of subsequent postings until it occurs to me to "check-in" and see. For example, before today, I had not thought to not checked-in for a few weeks. (Any plans to add email-notification?)
genevate
· 11 months ago
Stephen if you create an account with the commenting system you can get emails when someone replies.
Gary Sheehan
· 11 months ago
Stephen - I appreciate both your concerns about the functionality of the site, as well as the desire to keep the conversation productive and non-confrontational. Please feel free to email me at any time with suggestions for how we can better promote, brand, or publicize the site; it is our intention to have it function as a "water-cooler" of sorts, for citizens to share ideas, suggestions, etc. related to improving the community and addressing some of the challenges we are facing. The initial interest following the Economic Summit has likely waned, and it is now critical that we try to keep the conversation going and figure out how to add value to the community. My reaction to capecoder may well have been heavy handed; my apologies if you viewed it as such, it was not my intention, rather it was a reaction to commentary I, personally, felt was unfair to the business community at large. I always maintain a level of honesty and professionalism in my online and offline comments, I'm sorry if that wasn't apparent in that exchange. I will speak with some more technical folks about your email questions and am glad to have you here as part of the conversation...please let me know if there is anything else we can do to improve the site or our messaging. Very best, Gary Sheehan gsheehan@capemedical.net
capecoder
· 10 months ago
To stephenbuckley: Thank you, thank you, and thank you again. You are my hero.
There is no "reply" link on your comment, but I hope you see this.
I'm immeasurably grateful for your post. I'd been corresponding offline with Gary on planning an event that might have been of interest to technologists of all ages in this community, but when I read his comments, I backed off.
I assumed that the subject of this blog was meant to be provocative in a literary sort of way. I asked questions which I'd hoped would be received in the same objective way in which I tried to post them. Rather, the very act of asking questions was interpreted as "negative" and "ideological".
Perhaps that's why this website hasn't caught on. Most of us are dealing with enough problems - our 401(k) account balances being the classic example these days - that we don't need to invite more, especially when we're just trying to be good citizens and good neighbors by seeking out the facts on issues of importance to the community.
In any event, I thank you one last time for your terrific post and your generous spirit.
Stephen Buckley
· 10 months ago
I do not see a "reply" button under Gary's last comment, but this is in response to his last posting in which he said: "Please feel free to email me at any time with suggestions for how we can better promote, brand, or publicize the site .. "
The main advantage of having an online forum is that many people can share their wisdom and, if the forum is easy to navigate and properly moderated, the end-result will be that everyone gets a bit wiser from learning of the experiences of others (i.e., "we are smarter than me" is the name of a book on the subject of "collective intelligence).
If you and I talk on the phone or by email, then we are not using the online forum to allow others to add to the conversation. It is okay, and even expected, that an online forum is also a place to talk *about* that forum.
In fact, I did make some suggestions (in another location on this website) last November about how to improve and increase usage of the website. But except for a thank-you-for-commenting by "Genevate", I get not get any feedback on my thoughts. See http://www.capecodfocus.org/blog/show/4
It seemed like that was the proper place to share ideas about improving the website, but maybe there's a better place to do that? Please advise.
P.S. I made a public announcement about CapeCodFocus.org during a meeting of the Chatham Board of Selectmen last November. So, even though I do want this website to be successful, it first has to be open and civil to those people's experiences that may not fit easily into the "conventional wisdom" of others.
BillFallon
· 10 months ago
I would like to weigh in on the theme of "improving the web-site" or making it more relavent.
I am part of the "older" entreprenuer generation. I am engaged in starting my forth career here on Cape Cod and want to be part of a vibrant community. I look for ways to engage in dialog with others of "like mind". Like Mind being people who care to grow personally and professionally here on The Cape. I may or may not agree with their politics, ideology or interpretations but that is what make a good conversation that will help us grow!
The guiding principle has to be respect for the others opinions even if you don't agree with them.
I think if this blog is to grow and thrive, it needs substance, some controversy but above all professionalism.
I landed here while attempting to respond to a Cape Cod Technology Packet email about the entrepreneur's weekend. COOL IDEA that I hope develops some critical mass. But once here, I wandered into this discussion and will return here on occasion to add my 2 cents and to see what is happening. So, guys/gals keep it up.
All Comments
I don't think enough attention is being paid to small Cape-based businesses that are not dependent on tourism, period, regardless of the age of their owners.
That being said, some specific reaction from this 1940's era entrepreneur who lives here year-round:
1) I've not seen any scientific or sociological evidence to support the original thesis that a "healthy" community has an equal number of adults ages 35–44 years as adults 65 and over. Where did this come from and why has this assumption been "bought" hook, line and sinker?
2) The original thesis, as stated on this very website, is "Cape Cod, the study warned, is losing its working age adults, age 35–44 years, their children and early retirees." I haven't seen a single newspaper article addressing the third cohort in this equation: early retirees. Why is no attention being paid to this group?
3) I can't get my head around why having a large percentage of residents who are paying property taxes yet who don't have kids in the public schools (school departments being about half of a town's annual budget) is a bad thing. These same people also are paying local use fees, spending money at local stores, hiring local skilled craftsmen, etc. And this is destructive to the community?
4) Obviously, most people in the community are decent and law-abiding. Still, look at your local police log and draw your own conclusions about the age groups that chew up community resources, cause problems for their neighbors, etc. The great majority are not early retirees or senior citizens.
In other words, be careful what you wish for.
We will continue to solicit feedback surrounding a myriad of issues, however I feel I am safe to say that we feel very strongly that the continued out-migration of our working families is a dire situation and one which must be addressed.
Certainly there is a conversation happening around designing more opportunities for businesses to grow here on the Cape, particularly smaller, non-tourism related groups - however we also have to be certain to address some of the critical policy issues impacting the established companies who are seeking a smoother growth process here on Cape Cod...providing a stronger employment base and additional opportunities.
So, your comments are well noted, but I politely disagree that a community can safely turn its back on young families and expect to have a base of workers standing at the ready to care for and service older retirees; they will continue to leave and our older population will face a situation where they do not have people to contribute to the smooth functioning of our community.
Best - and I will be in touch soonest on the "weekend" issue we discussed previously...Gary
First, you haven't addressed my objection to the premise, which is the number of 33-45 year olds needs to EQUAL the number of 65+ year olds. Where did this assertion come from?
Second, the question of how to retain young retirees is not addressed, either.
Third, the complaint about too few workers has become, like patriotism, the last refuge for scoundrels. It's the excuse given to hire undocumented workers at below-market wages with no benefits, either statutory or otherwise.
Fourth, even though young families may not live on Cape, they could still participate in the life of the community in ways both of us applaud. The Waldorf School - a vital, lively, successful educational institution - is located in Bourne but enjoys the support of families from Southeastern Massachusetts and the South Shore.
There are several efforts underway to try and address the retention of younger retirees; the Cape and Islands Workforce Investment Board has a very active campaign surrounding 55+ workers and the Executive Director is playing a key role in guiding the work of CC Focus - a lot of the early work and coverage has highlighted the role of younger people in the community, this cannot come to the detriment of other age bands who are equally critical to the regions success.
I think your third point is clearly inflammatory and shortsighted. There are several well known and well documented cases of businesses and municipalities running into serious issues hiring employees. These hospitals, towns, and companies are not racing to the bottom to try and underpay at every level...they are out making a concerted effort to fill critical positions and running into major problems because of the employment pool we draw from in the region, or the inability to attract well qualified recruits from other regions because of cost based issues in the community. Clearly you have an axe to grind with the larger business community about our willingness to offer jobs at competitive wages and a general sense that we're all trying to hire as much cheap and illegal labor as possible; that has not been my experience and I characterize it as an unfair indictment of the community.
I completely agree that we have the capacity to attract families from the other side of the bridge and engage them in civic life here on the Cape...I remind people all the time that it is a Bridge, not a Wall and the exchange of traffic goes both ways. Businesses, towns, and non-profit organizations have ample untapped capacity to connect with people who may not live on this side of the bridge, and doing so will only enhance the community.
Again though, I feel you come from an ideological place which has a very negative view on the business community here on Cape Cod, which may well be well formed...I see the tremendous potential that exists in the region, but feel strongly that potential will be marginalized if we do not do a better job doing what Peter Francese called "balancing our human ecology" - meaning finding a balance between all age groups and creating opportunities for people at all levels.
I'm familiar with the WIB's 55+ program and understand that the goal is to recruit people in that age cohort for the insurance industry. This is not of personal interest to me, but perhaps it is a career goal for some.
Your conclusion that I've "indicted" the community and "have an axe to grind" is completely puzzling. I'm part of the business community here, have been for over seven years, so any such indictment would also include me. Also, I didn't accuse any Cape employer of hiring cheap illegal labor, either generally or in particular.
As I've written to you offline, I helped with the data analysis of a salary/benefits survey some five years ago that was sponsored by a respected Cape Cod professional association. Some of the results around salaries were interesting. It is my opinion that this would be worth revisiting with current data since it did support the notion that "good paying" jobs are harder to find on the Cape than in other parts of Massachusetts.
Much as I'd like to continue this dialog, this will be my last post for personal and family reasons. Best of luck with your efforts; anything that helps to make the business environment here better will make me very happy.
As a user of online discussions for 20 years, I know that a "flame war" (i.e., inflammatory discussion between users) does not, in the long run, increase the quality or quantity of discussion. In fact, it has the opposite effect.
The best response to a posting that is potentially incendiary is to "take it *down* a notch", lest you fall into the trap of a "flame war".
That, for example, is what I am trying to do here in my response to you. I'm asking you to reconsider your response to "capecoder" in which you said:
"I think your third point is clearly inflammatory and shortsighted."
Statements can be provocative without being "inflammatory". But some people do have a lower threshold of becoming "enflamed" by provocative comments and also (but inaccurately) feel that everyone else feels the same way.
I, for example, do not feel the same way. And I know that there are others who would not response with words that, ironically, seem to be "clearly inflammatory and shortsighted".
The best thing to do is to ask yourself if you would say the very same thing to someone in a face-to-face public meeting. I humbly ask that you answer that question before you post any response to my thoughts.
sincerely,
Stephen Buckley
P.S. Since this platform does not provide email-notices of replies, I will not be aware of subsequent postings until it occurs to me to "check-in" and see. For example, before today, I had not thought to not checked-in for a few weeks. (Any plans to add email-notification?)
I appreciate both your concerns about the functionality of the site, as well as the desire to keep the conversation productive and non-confrontational. Please feel free to email me at any time with suggestions for how we can better promote, brand, or publicize the site; it is our intention to have it function as a "water-cooler" of sorts, for citizens to share ideas, suggestions, etc. related to improving the community and addressing some of the challenges we are facing. The initial interest following the Economic Summit has likely waned, and it is now critical that we try to keep the conversation going and figure out how to add value to the community.
My reaction to capecoder may well have been heavy handed; my apologies if you viewed it as such, it was not my intention, rather it was a reaction to commentary I, personally, felt was unfair to the business community at large. I always maintain a level of honesty and professionalism in my online and offline comments, I'm sorry if that wasn't apparent in that exchange.
I will speak with some more technical folks about your email questions and am glad to have you here as part of the conversation...please let me know if there is anything else we can do to improve the site or our messaging.
Very best, Gary Sheehan gsheehan@capemedical.net
There is no "reply" link on your comment, but I hope you see this.
I'm immeasurably grateful for your post. I'd been corresponding offline with Gary on planning an event that might have been of interest to technologists of all ages in this community, but when I read his comments, I backed off.
I assumed that the subject of this blog was meant to be provocative in a literary sort of way. I asked questions which I'd hoped would be received in the same objective way in which I tried to post them. Rather, the very act of asking questions was interpreted as "negative" and "ideological".
Perhaps that's why this website hasn't caught on. Most of us are dealing with enough problems - our 401(k) account balances being the classic example these days - that we don't need to invite more, especially when we're just trying to be good citizens and good neighbors by seeking out the facts on issues of importance to the community.
In any event, I thank you one last time for your terrific post and your generous spirit.
"Please feel free to email me at any time with suggestions for how we can better promote, brand, or publicize the site .. "
The main advantage of having an online forum is that many people can share their wisdom and, if the forum is easy to navigate and properly moderated, the end-result will be that everyone gets a bit wiser from learning of the experiences of others (i.e., "we are smarter than me" is the name of a book on the subject of "collective intelligence).
If you and I talk on the phone or by email, then we are not using the online forum to allow others to add to the conversation. It is okay, and even expected, that an online forum is also a place to talk *about* that forum.
In fact, I did make some suggestions (in another location on this website) last November about how to improve and increase usage of the website. But except for a thank-you-for-commenting by "Genevate", I get not get any feedback on my thoughts. See http://www.capecodfocus.org/blog/show/4
It seemed like that was the proper place to share ideas about improving the website, but maybe there's a better place to do that? Please advise.
P.S. I made a public announcement about CapeCodFocus.org during a meeting of the Chatham Board of Selectmen last November. So, even though I do want this website to be successful, it first has to be open and civil to those people's experiences that may not fit easily into the "conventional wisdom" of others.
I am part of the "older" entreprenuer generation. I am engaged in starting my forth career here on Cape Cod and want to be part of a vibrant community. I look for ways to engage in dialog with others of "like mind". Like Mind being people who care to grow personally and professionally here on The Cape. I may or may not agree with their politics, ideology or interpretations but that is what make a good conversation that will help us grow!
The guiding principle has to be respect for the others opinions even if you don't agree with them.
I think if this blog is to grow and thrive, it needs substance, some controversy but above all professionalism.
I landed here while attempting to respond to a Cape Cod Technology Packet email about the entrepreneur's weekend. COOL IDEA that I hope develops some critical mass. But once here, I wandered into this discussion and will return here on occasion to add my 2 cents and to see what is happening. So, guys/gals keep it up.
Thanks,
Bill